Summary
In this episode,CRob is joined by Arun Gupta, Vice President and General Manager of Developer Programs at Intel and OpenSSF Governing Board Chair, and Zach Steindler, Principal Engineer at Github, a member of the OpenSSF TAC and co-chairs the OpenSSF Security Packages Repository Working Group to discuss the key lessons learned from open source security in 2024, the importance of the MVVSR (Mission, Vision, Values, Strategy, and Roadmap) framework, and the exciting initiatives planned for 2025. They highlight the growing reliance on open source, the challenges of dependency vulnerabilities, and the need for better security practices in the industry.
Conversation Highlights
- 00:00 Opening
- 03:29 Key Lessons from Open Source Security in 2024
- 08:29 MVVSR: Mission, Vision, Values, Strategy, and Roadmap
- 13:41 Importance of Strategy and Roadmap in OpenSSF
- 17:48 Roadmap Items for Community Collaboration
- 20:02 Key Resources and Courses for Developers
- 22:09 Exciting Opportunities Ahead for 2025
Transcript
CRob (00:50.337)
Hello and welcome to What’s in the SOSS, the Open Source Security Foundation’s podcast where we talk to folks from all around the open source ecosystem—interesting developers, thought leaders, and participants within this amazing movement that we call open source. Today, I have some amazing guests on the podcast with us that you may remember from previous sessions. I have Arun and Zach, who are part of the leadership of the foundation, and we’re here today to talk about some of the amazing things we’re planning on doing in 2025. But before we jump into the cool stuff, let’s just briefly, Arun and then Zach, if you could give us a TLDR of who you are and what you do with the foundation.
Arun Gupta (01:38.222)
Absolutely, I can start. Very happy to be here, CRob. Yeah, I’ve been with the OpenSSF Foundation for over two years now, been on the governing board all along. I was the governing board chair for 2024, and I was fortunate enough to be elected again for 2025. So, I guess the work I was doing was liked by somebody at least, so I’m happy to be here. OpenSSF is doing something really, really cool, which we’ll talk about today. And I’m really happy to help with my share.
Zach Steindler (02:18.392)
Yeah, thanks, Arun. I’m Zach Steindler. I work at GitHub on supply chain security for open source users, but also for our enterprise customers. I’m just about to start my third year serving on the OpenSSF TAC. I took over as 2024 tech chair, CRob, when you made the jump into the OpenSSF Chief Architect role. I also co-chair the Securing Software Repositories Working Group, where we get together folks from PyPI, Homebrew, and RubyGems to talk about best practices for securing those ecosystems.
CRob (03:00.161)
Excellent. And I want to thank you both for your ongoing leadership and community involvement. I think 2025 is going to have some amazing stuff in store for us all. Reflecting back, last year, 2024 was a very busy year for the foundation. I would encourage everyone to review our annual report, which came out in December, to see some of the amazing things our community members are working on. But looking at all of that, 2025 looks even busier. From your perspective, Arun, what were some of the key lessons we learned about open source security in 2024?
Arun Gupta (03:41.058)
Yeah, if you look at 2024, a few themes easily emerged. The reliance on open source is only going to grow. If you look at a typical application, roughly 80%, sometimes 90%, of the stack is open source. So it is definitely a critical part of our infrastructure. Pick any industry, vertical, or domain, and open source is prevalent. With a bigger scope comes a bigger attack area as well. The kinds of things we saw include dependency vulnerabilities continuing to be big. It started with Log4Shell during the pandemic back in 2021, and it has only grown. Many organizations still face outdated or insecure dependencies and need help tracking and fixing them. We have projects like GUAC, the AI cybersecurity challenge, and other OpenSSF efforts driving this part of the industry.
Another issue we saw was social engineering attacks. Open source is built on a human engineering fabric, so threats like the XZ Utils backdoor are a real concern. OpenSSF and OpenJS worked together to issue an alert on what needs to be done. Should we have trusted maintainers whom we’ve met in real life? These are important questions.
Supply chain attacks also continue to rise due to reliance on open source, particularly with government mandates requiring SBOMs to improve transparency and manage supply chains. OpenSSF is working on projects like Protobomb and BombCTL to simplify SBOM creation and portability.
Finally, regulatory pressures increased. The Cyber Resilience Act and the U.S. executive order on stricter open source compliance created unintended consequences for small businesses and open source communities. OpenSSF is working with the EU to ensure a balanced implementation that supports open source while keeping it secure.
Zach, what else would you add?
Zach Steindler (07:15.736)
That was a fantastic overview. I’ve spent much of my career on the defensive side of things in OpenSSF with supply chain security. It has been interesting to see how some of the capabilities we’ve developed have helped in incident response, such as build provenance in the Python package Ultraylitics compromise. That helped us understand what the attacker was doing and how to respond.
Going back to XZ Utils, I think a lot about how we can make the lives of open source maintainers easier in 2025. We ask a lot from them, and while we’re building new security capabilities, they shouldn’t add extra burdens. We must ensure security improvements come with usability improvements to make maintainers’ lives easier.
CRob (08:29.697)
Excellent points. Let’s talk about some things the foundation wants to collaborate on this year. We adopted a practice called MVVSR last year. Zach, maybe you could give an overview of what MVVSR is.
Zach Steindler (08:51.074)
OpenSSF is exiting an exciting early phase where we tried a lot of things to see what worked. Now, we’re borrowing practices from nonprofits and the business world to be more thoughtful about engagement. MVVSR stands for Mission, Vision, Values, Strategy, and Roadmap. It helps us define where we want the organization to go. The mission is high-level, perhaps on a 10-year timeline. The roadmap outlines immediate actions, spanning months or a year.
In late 2024, the OpenSSF TAC, Governance Committee, and Governing Board revised the MVVSR, focusing on strategy. We defined three key categories:
- Catalyst for Change – Building tools for open source developers to meet security goals.
- Educate & Empower the Modern Developer – Providing guides, courses, and best practices.
- Ecosystem Leader – Developing standards and frameworks like Salsa for supply chain security.
CRob (13:13.505)
Awesome. Arun, you’re involved in various foundations. How important is having a roadmap for OpenSSF’s strategy?
Arun Gupta (13:41.486)
It’s critical. Success depends not just on creating guidelines but on their adoption by other foundations. OpenSSF’s mission is to improve open source security, but much of the work happens in other foundations like CNCF, Apache, and Eclipse. Our success is defined by how widely our recommendations are adopted.
For example, Kubernetes adopting OpenSSF recommendations is a big win. At Intel, we ran the OpenSSF Scorecard across all public GitHub repos, tracking incremental security improvements. These efforts align back to OpenSSF’s mission.
CRob (26:18.849)
We’ve accomplished a lot in 2024 and have exciting plans for 2025. Thank you both for your leadership, and thanks to our community of contributors for driving these projects forward. It’s amazing to see initiatives like Salsa and sigstore, which started over four years ago, continue to grow. Gentlemen, I appreciate your time today, and I look forward to working together in 2025. Thank you.
Arun Gupta (27:05.486)
Thank you so much.
Zach Steindler (27:05.72)
Thanks, CRob, pleasure to be here.